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	<title>Comments on: Relative values</title>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.fuchsiadunlop.com/relative-values/comment-page-1/#comment-1610</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Apr 2011 13:34:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fuchsiadunlop.com/?p=836#comment-1610</guid>
		<description>Always cheaper in the US - sad for us Brits</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Always cheaper in the US &#8211; sad for us Brits</p>
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		<title>By: John Phillips</title>
		<link>http://www.fuchsiadunlop.com/relative-values/comment-page-1/#comment-1180</link>
		<dc:creator>John Phillips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 May 2010 16:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fuchsiadunlop.com/?p=836#comment-1180</guid>
		<description>I have always enjoyed my meals more in less expensive, or food stall, or hole in the wall places than I have in more expensive restaurants, whether here in San Francisco, or Singapore, or Borneo, or Texas.  Less expensive eateries seem to generally have tastier food and friendlier people.  Higher end restaurants serving of any kind of cuisine, never seem to be as fun or as tasty. And besides, being a fairly good cook, I can whip up a fantastic meal for way less than the price of a high end meal, and have much more fun doing it.  Or maybe I&#039;m just a pushover for fluorescent lighting?

Great books by the way, I hope you have more in store for us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have always enjoyed my meals more in less expensive, or food stall, or hole in the wall places than I have in more expensive restaurants, whether here in San Francisco, or Singapore, or Borneo, or Texas.  Less expensive eateries seem to generally have tastier food and friendlier people.  Higher end restaurants serving of any kind of cuisine, never seem to be as fun or as tasty. And besides, being a fairly good cook, I can whip up a fantastic meal for way less than the price of a high end meal, and have much more fun doing it.  Or maybe I&#8217;m just a pushover for fluorescent lighting?</p>
<p>Great books by the way, I hope you have more in store for us.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.fuchsiadunlop.com/relative-values/comment-page-1/#comment-990</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 04:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fuchsiadunlop.com/?p=836#comment-990</guid>
		<description>Personally, I think Chinese food is perceived as cheap because of the immensely populated Chinese takeaway in the UK selling cheap fast food with lack of &quot;brand awareness&quot;. Western countries have traditionally viewed goods from China as being cheap and it is viewed as a threat to their own industries. In order to compete on a global/national scale the western countries came up with the &quot;branded products&quot; - which discriminates against the foreign product. Chinese food presentation showcase their skill in carving decorative pieces and western food came up with artistic presentations, which I think adds more value. Western countries are better in terms of creating value whereas China always sell products at their true prices. Yes, there are chinese dishes that are extremely expensive, but the prices on these dishes are mostly based on the scarcity of the product or the level of difficulty in obtaining it ie. shark&#039;s fin and abalone. Going back to the takeaway business, these are businesses initially started by the older generation that grew up in the countryside of Hong Kong who had lack of education and authentic cooking skills (also because there is lack of imported ingredients). Even if they had authentic cooking skills there was no point back because what brought them to the UK in the first place was because they saw an opportunity in Britain because back then Britain had very little culinary identity. Even today there are many takeaway/restaurant owners have minds that are still buried in the 70&#039;s/80&#039;s where they think British people cannot take really spicy food and dont know how to appreciate chinese food. Another reason why chinese food is perceived as cheap food compared to western food is because it is under-price - VAT! I see many problems in the Chinese food industry. There is no western food takeaway for starts which preserves its value where as chinese takeaways have to compete with the likes of kebabs, indian, fish and chips, pizza outlets etc. I recently came back from HK with some authentic cantonese recipes. Before I tried implementing it onto our menu I did a very small scale of market research by asking potential customers that if a chinese takeaway uses imported ingredients to prepare authentic chinese dishes are they prepared to pay for the marked-up price? And their response was it doesn&#039;t matter if you put true ingredients in or not as long as it tastes good! I agree that the lack of appreciation/knowledge in Chinese cooking is some of the causes to why people are not paying higher prices, but there are many factors aswell such as buffets, and fukienese immigrants coming to the UK compete agressively on pricing ie. 4 meals for £10! Then you have people like my parents who have retired and expect their children having got educated and instead of taking over their business should work elsewhere. Also I heard that now immigration requires: that for a restaurant/takeaway to hire a chinese chef/worker from China they must pass english exams at pre university entrance level. Maybe I&#039;m wrong but I feel that all doors are closed for people like me who really have a passion for cooking and cooks not for money, but to make people happy, and one that wants to continue and improve my parents business at the same time goal is to revolutionalise the chinese takeaway business. What if I want to create a franchise - there are lack of skilled British labour that are capable in cooking Chinese cuisine and current immigration requirements really is a problemn. This leaves the Fukienese people to takeover the takeaway businesses and produce cheap low quality food. I see an opportunity here, but I&#039;m also really stuck in a dilema and was really interested in creating implementing authentic cooking into chinese takeaways. Actually initially I was intending to go abroad to learn authentic cantonese cooking, but at same time is aware that British food trend had changed plus my wife is from Gui Yang and I love spicy food so I stumble across Sichuan Institue of Higher Cuisine which lead me to your website! I haven&#039;t read your books yet but I have bought them immediately on the internet can&#039;t wait! I would appreciate any help you can offer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I think Chinese food is perceived as cheap because of the immensely populated Chinese takeaway in the UK selling cheap fast food with lack of &#8220;brand awareness&#8221;. Western countries have traditionally viewed goods from China as being cheap and it is viewed as a threat to their own industries. In order to compete on a global/national scale the western countries came up with the &#8220;branded products&#8221; &#8211; which discriminates against the foreign product. Chinese food presentation showcase their skill in carving decorative pieces and western food came up with artistic presentations, which I think adds more value. Western countries are better in terms of creating value whereas China always sell products at their true prices. Yes, there are chinese dishes that are extremely expensive, but the prices on these dishes are mostly based on the scarcity of the product or the level of difficulty in obtaining it ie. shark&#8217;s fin and abalone. Going back to the takeaway business, these are businesses initially started by the older generation that grew up in the countryside of Hong Kong who had lack of education and authentic cooking skills (also because there is lack of imported ingredients). Even if they had authentic cooking skills there was no point back because what brought them to the UK in the first place was because they saw an opportunity in Britain because back then Britain had very little culinary identity. Even today there are many takeaway/restaurant owners have minds that are still buried in the 70&#8242;s/80&#8242;s where they think British people cannot take really spicy food and dont know how to appreciate chinese food. Another reason why chinese food is perceived as cheap food compared to western food is because it is under-price &#8211; VAT! I see many problems in the Chinese food industry. There is no western food takeaway for starts which preserves its value where as chinese takeaways have to compete with the likes of kebabs, indian, fish and chips, pizza outlets etc. I recently came back from HK with some authentic cantonese recipes. Before I tried implementing it onto our menu I did a very small scale of market research by asking potential customers that if a chinese takeaway uses imported ingredients to prepare authentic chinese dishes are they prepared to pay for the marked-up price? And their response was it doesn&#8217;t matter if you put true ingredients in or not as long as it tastes good! I agree that the lack of appreciation/knowledge in Chinese cooking is some of the causes to why people are not paying higher prices, but there are many factors aswell such as buffets, and fukienese immigrants coming to the UK compete agressively on pricing ie. 4 meals for £10! Then you have people like my parents who have retired and expect their children having got educated and instead of taking over their business should work elsewhere. Also I heard that now immigration requires: that for a restaurant/takeaway to hire a chinese chef/worker from China they must pass english exams at pre university entrance level. Maybe I&#8217;m wrong but I feel that all doors are closed for people like me who really have a passion for cooking and cooks not for money, but to make people happy, and one that wants to continue and improve my parents business at the same time goal is to revolutionalise the chinese takeaway business. What if I want to create a franchise &#8211; there are lack of skilled British labour that are capable in cooking Chinese cuisine and current immigration requirements really is a problemn. This leaves the Fukienese people to takeover the takeaway businesses and produce cheap low quality food. I see an opportunity here, but I&#8217;m also really stuck in a dilema and was really interested in creating implementing authentic cooking into chinese takeaways. Actually initially I was intending to go abroad to learn authentic cantonese cooking, but at same time is aware that British food trend had changed plus my wife is from Gui Yang and I love spicy food so I stumble across Sichuan Institue of Higher Cuisine which lead me to your website! I haven&#8217;t read your books yet but I have bought them immediately on the internet can&#8217;t wait! I would appreciate any help you can offer.</p>
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		<title>By: Fuchsia</title>
		<link>http://www.fuchsiadunlop.com/relative-values/comment-page-1/#comment-957</link>
		<dc:creator>Fuchsia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:00:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fuchsiadunlop.com/?p=836#comment-957</guid>
		<description>James - I wasn&#039;t really intending to advocate spending vast amounts of money on food! (although we all know that it can be fun from time to time, circumstances permitting...) The purpose of my original post was simply to highlight the fact that the sophistication of Chinese culinary culture is almost invisible and virtually unrecognised in the West. What people tend to see is the cheap, everyday stuff, and so they think that&#039;s it. 

One of the thrilling things about doing cookery presentations with my Sichuanese chef friend Yu Bo in various countries has been the total amazement of our audiences, who have generally seen nothing like what he does - in terms of the delicacy of his preparations, the imagination of his art, and the sheer beauty of the food he produces. Most Westerners, including culinary professionals, don&#039;t realise this kind of thing exists in Chinese cuisine.  

There is nothing wrong with cheap, simple food - in fact Chinese home cooking can be wonderful, even in very poor places (and do read my post some time ago about the catering at Chinese construction sites) - but that&#039;s not the whole picture. 

Mel: I agree that high-end Chinese restaurants in the West sometimes offer more glamour than good food. When I was reviewing Chinese restaurants for Time Out a few years ago, I found shockingly mediocre food in very expensive places. Generally, I don&#039;t expect to find really good food in fancy Chinese restaurants that don&#039;t cater mainly to the Chinese community - with a few exceptions, like Hakkasan and Yautcha, and Mr Chow, which I haven&#039;t been to for a while but have always enjoyed. 

P.S. James, I&#039;ve no idea about good Chinese restaurants in San Francisco! When I was last there, I think the best meals I had were at the marvellous Zuni Cafe, and Delfina.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James &#8211; I wasn&#8217;t really intending to advocate spending vast amounts of money on food! (although we all know that it can be fun from time to time, circumstances permitting&#8230;) The purpose of my original post was simply to highlight the fact that the sophistication of Chinese culinary culture is almost invisible and virtually unrecognised in the West. What people tend to see is the cheap, everyday stuff, and so they think that&#8217;s it. </p>
<p>One of the thrilling things about doing cookery presentations with my Sichuanese chef friend Yu Bo in various countries has been the total amazement of our audiences, who have generally seen nothing like what he does &#8211; in terms of the delicacy of his preparations, the imagination of his art, and the sheer beauty of the food he produces. Most Westerners, including culinary professionals, don&#8217;t realise this kind of thing exists in Chinese cuisine.  </p>
<p>There is nothing wrong with cheap, simple food &#8211; in fact Chinese home cooking can be wonderful, even in very poor places (and do read my post some time ago about the catering at Chinese construction sites) &#8211; but that&#8217;s not the whole picture. </p>
<p>Mel: I agree that high-end Chinese restaurants in the West sometimes offer more glamour than good food. When I was reviewing Chinese restaurants for Time Out a few years ago, I found shockingly mediocre food in very expensive places. Generally, I don&#8217;t expect to find really good food in fancy Chinese restaurants that don&#8217;t cater mainly to the Chinese community &#8211; with a few exceptions, like Hakkasan and Yautcha, and Mr Chow, which I haven&#8217;t been to for a while but have always enjoyed. </p>
<p>P.S. James, I&#8217;ve no idea about good Chinese restaurants in San Francisco! When I was last there, I think the best meals I had were at the marvellous Zuni Cafe, and Delfina.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.fuchsiadunlop.com/relative-values/comment-page-1/#comment-944</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 06:22:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fuchsiadunlop.com/?p=836#comment-944</guid>
		<description>Re: American barbecue.  It&#039;s also the province of slaves originally, historically/usually given the worst cuts of meat and then ingeniously employing seasoning and marinades as well as a protracted amount of time to render those particular cuts to produce a palatable and appetizing concoction.  Prefer a pulled pork sandwich to a beef brisket personally.

Impression is that American barbecue owes much of its lineage to the Caribbean and also somewhat to Mexican barbocoa.  The citation of Brunswick Stew in tandem w/ South Carolina low country cuisine (despite its strong African and Caribbean influences) may be a worthier candidate for consideration as per indigenous cuisine in the &quot;North&quot; portion of the Americas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: American barbecue.  It&#8217;s also the province of slaves originally, historically/usually given the worst cuts of meat and then ingeniously employing seasoning and marinades as well as a protracted amount of time to render those particular cuts to produce a palatable and appetizing concoction.  Prefer a pulled pork sandwich to a beef brisket personally.</p>
<p>Impression is that American barbecue owes much of its lineage to the Caribbean and also somewhat to Mexican barbocoa.  The citation of Brunswick Stew in tandem w/ South Carolina low country cuisine (despite its strong African and Caribbean influences) may be a worthier candidate for consideration as per indigenous cuisine in the &#8220;North&#8221; portion of the Americas.</p>
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		<title>By: mel</title>
		<link>http://www.fuchsiadunlop.com/relative-values/comment-page-1/#comment-943</link>
		<dc:creator>mel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 19:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fuchsiadunlop.com/?p=836#comment-943</guid>
		<description>Well it is a bit of a swim but you can get black skin chickens in many of the chinese supermarkets in Flushing, Queens. They are VERY Expensive-even more so than the free range chickens and ducks which are next to them in the counter. Ducks come with the head or headless-your choice. I had a soup made from a freshly killed black skin chicken when i was hiking with a guide and my significant other in tiger leaping gorge-we all loved it but then we were also very hungry.
As for up-scale chinese restaurants at least in the States i find they cater to expense accounts and not food save perhaps for the now long defunct Hunan restaurant on 2nd ave and 44st which you wrote about in your Hunan book.
Dishes with farm raised chickens are available in NYC e.g. at the Grand Sichuam restaurants-there is a special listing on the menu.
What i don&#039;t understand is why even the best sichuan restaurants in NYC don&#039;t use facing heaven peppers, you can find them in the grocery stores, albeit the quality i see is not close to the ones i brought back from Chengdu, but the restaurants simply use the long chili peppers. Perhaps i will bring a package at my next visit to Little Pepper and Spicy and Tasty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well it is a bit of a swim but you can get black skin chickens in many of the chinese supermarkets in Flushing, Queens. They are VERY Expensive-even more so than the free range chickens and ducks which are next to them in the counter. Ducks come with the head or headless-your choice. I had a soup made from a freshly killed black skin chicken when i was hiking with a guide and my significant other in tiger leaping gorge-we all loved it but then we were also very hungry.<br />
As for up-scale chinese restaurants at least in the States i find they cater to expense accounts and not food save perhaps for the now long defunct Hunan restaurant on 2nd ave and 44st which you wrote about in your Hunan book.<br />
Dishes with farm raised chickens are available in NYC e.g. at the Grand Sichuam restaurants-there is a special listing on the menu.<br />
What i don&#8217;t understand is why even the best sichuan restaurants in NYC don&#8217;t use facing heaven peppers, you can find them in the grocery stores, albeit the quality i see is not close to the ones i brought back from Chengdu, but the restaurants simply use the long chili peppers. Perhaps i will bring a package at my next visit to Little Pepper and Spicy and Tasty.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.fuchsiadunlop.com/relative-values/comment-page-1/#comment-942</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 16:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fuchsiadunlop.com/?p=836#comment-942</guid>
		<description>Lots of comments and observations and questions.

I&#039;ll start with the &quot;bland chickens,&quot;  at least here in the United States, I tend to agree...  This is one of the results of factory farming, and it extends beyond chickens to all poultry, beef, lamb, pork, etc...  I started buying non-factory farmed meats and vegetables out of a sense of social conscience about a decade ago, and now I would not go back out of a selfish sense of flavor.  Find a place that sells free-range &quot;organic&quot; meats, not stuffed with growth hormones, and you&#039;ll find a more flavorful product.

Alas, you&#039;ll also find a deeper hole in your wallet.

In that vein, it is probably not the most opportune economic time to chastise about the lack of respect for high-end restaurants, in any cuisine.  In case you weren&#039;t aware, San Francisco has something like 1 in 5 people unemployed or underemployed right now, and everyone I know is looking to cut costs.  (The official rate is 12.3%, but that doesn&#039;t count people who are &quot;working part time for economic reasons&quot; and people who have been out of work so long they&#039;ve exhausted unemployment benefits.)  Personally, I&#039;ve seen my salary cut 30% after I was lucky enough to find work after a layoff.  I appreciate expensive food, but for the time being, I&#039;m having to abstain.

Oh, I&#039;ll note that in Silicon Valley, the curry situation is much, much worse.  So bad that when I used to fly to London it was hard to convince me to anywhere but an Indian restaurant, because the comparison between Brick Lane and California curries is greater than any other cuisine comparison I&#039;ve seen.

As for &quot;American food,&quot; there are two decent answers.  In many ways, we&#039;ve adopted the traditional British food, with an American twist.  If you accept that the traditional British meal is roast beef and potatoes, we&#039;ve modified to be steaks and potatoes.  We just don&#039;t cook the beef to the texture of shoe leather.  ;-)

There is something, though, that I&#039;ve often thought should be considered more traditional American food, although it is primarily in the US south:  American barbecue.  As I understand it, the slow cooking/smoking of the meat may have its origins in the native Americans going back to before Leif Erickson...  Regardless of the origins, it has been adopted with a vengeance throughout the south, with many different, interesting regional variations.  I am not familiar with all of them, but here are some:

North Carolina barbecue (my favorite, as my mother is a native of the state, and I went to university at Duke University):  pulled pork with a light vinegar/pepper sauce with a hint of brown sugar.  The best ones are vinegary and not sweet.  In the state, it is divided into eastern and western, in the west they add tomato to the sauce.  Always, though, it is not sweet.  Alas, my favorite place closed after a hurricane wiped it out, Melton&#039;s in Rocky Mount.  Great cue, great brunswick stew, and great hushpuppies.

South Carolina barbecue is also pulled pork, but they add mustard to the sauce.  Like most of South Carolina, the folks who run the most famous BBQ places have some unusual political views...  

Memphis barbecue and Kansas City barbecue are also well known, have less vinegar and tend to be a bit sweeter.  One has a dry rub of spices on the meat, the other has a thicker sauce, and I always get them confused.

Alabama (or is it Mississippi?) has a variant of barbecue in part of the state made with mayonnaise.  Never tried it.  

Texas is probably the best known barbecue; beef brisket, ribs, etc, and with a heavy tomato/vinegar sauce,  (Some North Carolinians deride it as &quot;beef with catsup.&quot;)  The sauce is usually thick and spicy sweet.  I like it, but prefer North Carolina pork.  

Anyway, that&#039;s a brief look at what I would call &quot;American&quot; food.

Last, a couple question:  What are the high-end Chinese restaurants you recommend in San Francisco?  I&#039;ll admit two preferences which aren&#039;t high end, Old Mandarin out near the zoo is wonderful, and for good Sichuan I go to Classic Sichuan in Milbrae.  (I also like Sam Lok in the city.)  

Another question, which you may not be able to answer?  Is there another regional Chinese cookbook on the way?  If so, what region?  I was thinking about what regional Chinese cuisine needs more exposure, and, well, there are a few. 

Anyway, sorry for the long post...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lots of comments and observations and questions.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll start with the &#8220;bland chickens,&#8221;  at least here in the United States, I tend to agree&#8230;  This is one of the results of factory farming, and it extends beyond chickens to all poultry, beef, lamb, pork, etc&#8230;  I started buying non-factory farmed meats and vegetables out of a sense of social conscience about a decade ago, and now I would not go back out of a selfish sense of flavor.  Find a place that sells free-range &#8220;organic&#8221; meats, not stuffed with growth hormones, and you&#8217;ll find a more flavorful product.</p>
<p>Alas, you&#8217;ll also find a deeper hole in your wallet.</p>
<p>In that vein, it is probably not the most opportune economic time to chastise about the lack of respect for high-end restaurants, in any cuisine.  In case you weren&#8217;t aware, San Francisco has something like 1 in 5 people unemployed or underemployed right now, and everyone I know is looking to cut costs.  (The official rate is 12.3%, but that doesn&#8217;t count people who are &#8220;working part time for economic reasons&#8221; and people who have been out of work so long they&#8217;ve exhausted unemployment benefits.)  Personally, I&#8217;ve seen my salary cut 30% after I was lucky enough to find work after a layoff.  I appreciate expensive food, but for the time being, I&#8217;m having to abstain.</p>
<p>Oh, I&#8217;ll note that in Silicon Valley, the curry situation is much, much worse.  So bad that when I used to fly to London it was hard to convince me to anywhere but an Indian restaurant, because the comparison between Brick Lane and California curries is greater than any other cuisine comparison I&#8217;ve seen.</p>
<p>As for &#8220;American food,&#8221; there are two decent answers.  In many ways, we&#8217;ve adopted the traditional British food, with an American twist.  If you accept that the traditional British meal is roast beef and potatoes, we&#8217;ve modified to be steaks and potatoes.  We just don&#8217;t cook the beef to the texture of shoe leather.  <img src='http://www.fuchsiadunlop.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>There is something, though, that I&#8217;ve often thought should be considered more traditional American food, although it is primarily in the US south:  American barbecue.  As I understand it, the slow cooking/smoking of the meat may have its origins in the native Americans going back to before Leif Erickson&#8230;  Regardless of the origins, it has been adopted with a vengeance throughout the south, with many different, interesting regional variations.  I am not familiar with all of them, but here are some:</p>
<p>North Carolina barbecue (my favorite, as my mother is a native of the state, and I went to university at Duke University):  pulled pork with a light vinegar/pepper sauce with a hint of brown sugar.  The best ones are vinegary and not sweet.  In the state, it is divided into eastern and western, in the west they add tomato to the sauce.  Always, though, it is not sweet.  Alas, my favorite place closed after a hurricane wiped it out, Melton&#8217;s in Rocky Mount.  Great cue, great brunswick stew, and great hushpuppies.</p>
<p>South Carolina barbecue is also pulled pork, but they add mustard to the sauce.  Like most of South Carolina, the folks who run the most famous BBQ places have some unusual political views&#8230;  </p>
<p>Memphis barbecue and Kansas City barbecue are also well known, have less vinegar and tend to be a bit sweeter.  One has a dry rub of spices on the meat, the other has a thicker sauce, and I always get them confused.</p>
<p>Alabama (or is it Mississippi?) has a variant of barbecue in part of the state made with mayonnaise.  Never tried it.  </p>
<p>Texas is probably the best known barbecue; beef brisket, ribs, etc, and with a heavy tomato/vinegar sauce,  (Some North Carolinians deride it as &#8220;beef with catsup.&#8221;)  The sauce is usually thick and spicy sweet.  I like it, but prefer North Carolina pork.  </p>
<p>Anyway, that&#8217;s a brief look at what I would call &#8220;American&#8221; food.</p>
<p>Last, a couple question:  What are the high-end Chinese restaurants you recommend in San Francisco?  I&#8217;ll admit two preferences which aren&#8217;t high end, Old Mandarin out near the zoo is wonderful, and for good Sichuan I go to Classic Sichuan in Milbrae.  (I also like Sam Lok in the city.)  </p>
<p>Another question, which you may not be able to answer?  Is there another regional Chinese cookbook on the way?  If so, what region?  I was thinking about what regional Chinese cuisine needs more exposure, and, well, there are a few. </p>
<p>Anyway, sorry for the long post&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: David Ockey</title>
		<link>http://www.fuchsiadunlop.com/relative-values/comment-page-1/#comment-936</link>
		<dc:creator>David Ockey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:07:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fuchsiadunlop.com/?p=836#comment-936</guid>
		<description>That situation can be looked at from a different point of view. It may be kind of a compliment. For example, I&#039;m American, and I&#039;d never expect to pay a lot of money for &quot;American food&quot; (not really sure what that would be. Hot dogs??) Why? Well, it&#039;s common. It&#039;s what I ate all the time (when I lived back in the states). It&#039;s what my mom cooked. French food? How often does one eat French food? Well, other than the French, I don&#039;t know of anyone who eats it that much. I&#039;ve only had it twice in my life! (maybe I don&#039;t know what I&#039;m missing) However, Chinese food is as regular a fare in my life as American food. I have it on a regular basis. It&#039;s a staple of sorts. I cook it (well, my version of it) and when I&#039;m hungry, it&#039;s one of the types of food that I think of first. So, I think it&#039;s a kind of compliment. If I were to go home and my mom cooked Chinese food, I wouldn&#039;t think twice. If she cooked something like French cuisine, I might be a little confused, unless it were a special occasion. 

Having said that, Chinese food is an industry. It&#039;s made cheaply in many places in the world. Unfortunately, business constantly looks for ways to save money and ultimately make more money. We&#039;ve grown a little too accustomed to that I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That situation can be looked at from a different point of view. It may be kind of a compliment. For example, I&#8217;m American, and I&#8217;d never expect to pay a lot of money for &#8220;American food&#8221; (not really sure what that would be. Hot dogs??) Why? Well, it&#8217;s common. It&#8217;s what I ate all the time (when I lived back in the states). It&#8217;s what my mom cooked. French food? How often does one eat French food? Well, other than the French, I don&#8217;t know of anyone who eats it that much. I&#8217;ve only had it twice in my life! (maybe I don&#8217;t know what I&#8217;m missing) However, Chinese food is as regular a fare in my life as American food. I have it on a regular basis. It&#8217;s a staple of sorts. I cook it (well, my version of it) and when I&#8217;m hungry, it&#8217;s one of the types of food that I think of first. So, I think it&#8217;s a kind of compliment. If I were to go home and my mom cooked Chinese food, I wouldn&#8217;t think twice. If she cooked something like French cuisine, I might be a little confused, unless it were a special occasion. </p>
<p>Having said that, Chinese food is an industry. It&#8217;s made cheaply in many places in the world. Unfortunately, business constantly looks for ways to save money and ultimately make more money. We&#8217;ve grown a little too accustomed to that I think.</p>
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		<title>By: Fuchsia</title>
		<link>http://www.fuchsiadunlop.com/relative-values/comment-page-1/#comment-935</link>
		<dc:creator>Fuchsia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 10:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fuchsiadunlop.com/?p=836#comment-935</guid>
		<description>Joe - thanks for the reminder about Jai Yun. I think I&#039;ve read something about it on food blogs in the past, and I&#039;ll make sure to visit next time I&#039;m in San Francisco. 

Michael - I also like Phoenix Palace. I don&#039;t think the dim sum are as good as Royal Chinas, but they often have excellent specials, using quite interesting ingredients. And good soups. 

On chickens - I&#039;ve eaten the most delicious chickens I&#039;ve ever had in China, mainly in farmhouses where they are free-range, fed on household scraps, and killed an hour or two before dinner. When I first lived in Chengdu (mid-1990s), I think most of the chickens must have been free-range, because they were very flavourful, quite lean and a little scrawny - better suited to stews and soups than stir-fries. At that time, however, you could also buy, in some places, what my Chinese friends called disparagingly 欧洲鸡, &#039;European chickens&#039; - pale, plump, unmuscly, somewhat tasteless birds, which must have been intensively farmed. These days, I suspect most chicken will be the latter, because of the rapid industrialisation of the food chain, and because restaurants that serve free-range birds always mention this, by calling them 土鸡 (&#039;rustic&#039; chicken, i.e. farmhouse chicken) on the menu. 

I&#039;d also be interested to know of any sources for black-skinned chickens!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe &#8211; thanks for the reminder about Jai Yun. I think I&#8217;ve read something about it on food blogs in the past, and I&#8217;ll make sure to visit next time I&#8217;m in San Francisco. </p>
<p>Michael &#8211; I also like Phoenix Palace. I don&#8217;t think the dim sum are as good as Royal Chinas, but they often have excellent specials, using quite interesting ingredients. And good soups. </p>
<p>On chickens &#8211; I&#8217;ve eaten the most delicious chickens I&#8217;ve ever had in China, mainly in farmhouses where they are free-range, fed on household scraps, and killed an hour or two before dinner. When I first lived in Chengdu (mid-1990s), I think most of the chickens must have been free-range, because they were very flavourful, quite lean and a little scrawny &#8211; better suited to stews and soups than stir-fries. At that time, however, you could also buy, in some places, what my Chinese friends called disparagingly 欧洲鸡, &#8216;European chickens&#8217; &#8211; pale, plump, unmuscly, somewhat tasteless birds, which must have been intensively farmed. These days, I suspect most chicken will be the latter, because of the rapid industrialisation of the food chain, and because restaurants that serve free-range birds always mention this, by calling them 土鸡 (&#8216;rustic&#8217; chicken, i.e. farmhouse chicken) on the menu. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d also be interested to know of any sources for black-skinned chickens!</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.fuchsiadunlop.com/relative-values/comment-page-1/#comment-934</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 04:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fuchsiadunlop.com/?p=836#comment-934</guid>
		<description>In North America, the expectation of cheap prices may be b/c of the overriding presence of Cantonese immigrants, ready to prepare quick and inexpensive meals - migrants (from China - and mostly from the southern rim of provinces) historically have been part of the lower socioeconomic strata and those that disembarked in places like Vancouver, New York, and San Francisco probably had no exposure to higher end, premium cuisine back in China.  One can easily then observe successive generations continuing to foster this notion of &quot;Chinese&quot; food as cheap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In North America, the expectation of cheap prices may be b/c of the overriding presence of Cantonese immigrants, ready to prepare quick and inexpensive meals &#8211; migrants (from China &#8211; and mostly from the southern rim of provinces) historically have been part of the lower socioeconomic strata and those that disembarked in places like Vancouver, New York, and San Francisco probably had no exposure to higher end, premium cuisine back in China.  One can easily then observe successive generations continuing to foster this notion of &#8220;Chinese&#8221; food as cheap.</p>
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